The Gray Area with Sean Illing

  • Best of: Clint Smith III on confronting the legacy of slavery

    Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with author Clint Smith III about his book How the Word Is Passed, which documents the writer’s personal journey visiting sites that embody the legacy of American slavery. They discuss the…


  • Best of: We need to talk about UFOs. Seriously.

    Vox’s Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it’s time to start thinking more seriously about the earth-shattering implications of discovering extraterrestrial life. They discuss the taboos against…


  • Chris Bosh on winning (and losing everything)

    Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with NBA legend Chris Bosh about his basketball career, his youth, and his legacy. They discuss Bosh’s transition to the NBA, his role on the controversial Miami Heat teams that won…


  • The cult of toughness

    Sean Illing talks with political commentator and author David French about modern conservatism and masculinity. They discuss the divergence between the Right’s view of masculinity and what they fear the Left’s view is, how Trump…


  • Is ethical investing a scam?

    Vox’s Emily Stewart talks with Tariq Fancy about whether or not “socially responsible investment” is a scam. Fancy is a former executive who led sustainable investing at BlackRock, one of the world’s largest asset management…


  • The good life is painful

    Sean Illing talks with psychologist Paul Bloom about his new book The Sweet Spot, and whether it’s necessary to experience suffering in order to live a fulfilling, meaningful life. They discuss the rich philosophical history…


  • The father of environmental justice

    Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with Dr, Robert Bullard, a pioneer in the crusade for environmental justice, about his more than four decades in the fight. They discuss how the movement to recognize environmental civil rights…


  • Jill Lepore on Elon Musk’s imaginary world

    Sean Illing talks with historian Jill Lepore about her new podcast: The Evening Rocket explores Elon Musk and the new form of extravagant, extreme capitalism — which Lepore dubs “Muskism” — that he has ushered…


  • E.O. Wilson’s plan to save the world

    Vox’s Benji Jones talks with the celebrated entomologist, biologist, and naturalist E.O. Wilson. They talk about Wilson’s sixty-plus years as a leading thinker in his field, how his expeditions studying ant species around the world…


  • Workers of the world, stay home!

    Sean Illing talks with Anne Helen Petersen and her partner Charlie Warzel about their new book, Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working from Home. They talk about a new model…