The Gray Area with Sean Illing

  • The cult of toughness

    Sean Illing talks with political commentator and author David French about modern conservatism and masculinity. They discuss the divergence between the Right’s view of masculinity and what they fear the Left’s view is, how Trump…


  • Is ethical investing a scam?

    Vox’s Emily Stewart talks with Tariq Fancy about whether or not “socially responsible investment” is a scam. Fancy is a former executive who led sustainable investing at BlackRock, one of the world’s largest asset management…


  • The good life is painful

    Sean Illing talks with psychologist Paul Bloom about his new book The Sweet Spot, and whether it’s necessary to experience suffering in order to live a fulfilling, meaningful life. They discuss the rich philosophical history…


  • The father of environmental justice

    Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with Dr, Robert Bullard, a pioneer in the crusade for environmental justice, about his more than four decades in the fight. They discuss how the movement to recognize environmental civil rights…


  • Jill Lepore on Elon Musk’s imaginary world

    Sean Illing talks with historian Jill Lepore about her new podcast: The Evening Rocket explores Elon Musk and the new form of extravagant, extreme capitalism — which Lepore dubs “Muskism” — that he has ushered…


  • E.O. Wilson’s plan to save the world

    Vox’s Benji Jones talks with the celebrated entomologist, biologist, and naturalist E.O. Wilson. They talk about Wilson’s sixty-plus years as a leading thinker in his field, how his expeditions studying ant species around the world…


  • Workers of the world, stay home!

    Sean Illing talks with Anne Helen Petersen and her partner Charlie Warzel about their new book, Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working from Home. They talk about a new model…


  • How progressives get back in the game

    Sean Illing talks with Briahna Joy Gray, the former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 Presidential campaign, and current host of the Bad Faith podcast. They discuss the practical challenges facing the Left…


  • The highs and lows of the “creator economy”

    Vox’s Rebecca Jennings talks with Taylor Lorenz, tech culture reporter for the New York Times, about the creator economy: what it is, who’s in it, and why more people are paying attention to it. They…


  • Why Chris Hayes thinks we’re all famous now

    Sean Illing talks with Chris Hayes, author, commentator, and host of All In With Chris Hayes on MSNBC. They discuss his recent essay in the New Yorker about fame and the internet, why we seek…