Essentials: Science of Building Strong Social Bonds with Family, Friends & Romantic Partners

0:00:02 – Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials,
0:00:04 where we revisit past episodes
0:00:07 for the most potent and actionable science-based tools
0:00:10 for mental health, physical health, and performance.
0:00:12 I’m Andrew Huberman,
0:00:15 and I’m a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology
0:00:17 at Stanford School of Medicine.
0:00:20 Today’s episode is about the biology, psychology,
0:00:23 and practices of social bonding.
0:00:26 From the day we are born until the day we die,
0:00:28 the quality of our social bonds
0:00:30 dictates much of our quality of life.
0:00:34 It should therefore be no surprise that our brain,
0:00:36 and indeed much of our entire nervous system,
0:00:39 is wired for social bonds.
0:00:41 Today, we are going to talk about those brain
0:00:43 and nervous system circuitries.
0:00:45 We are also going to talk about the neurochemicals
0:00:47 and hormones that underlie their function.
0:00:50 And we are going to touch on a number of important
0:00:54 and actionable tools that you can apply in everyday life,
0:00:57 and I’m confident that you will come away from today’s episode,
0:01:00 with tremendous knowledge about how you function.
0:01:03 For instance, if you’re an introvert or an extrovert,
0:01:04 why is that?
0:01:06 Turns out there may be a neurochemical basis for that.
0:01:08 Believe it or not, there’s biology around that now,
0:01:10 and it’s excellent peer-reviewed work.
0:01:12 Now, an important feature of biology generally,
0:01:15 but in particular as it relates to social bonding,
0:01:18 is that the neural circuits,
0:01:21 meaning the brain areas and neurons and the hormones,
0:01:24 things like oxytocin, which we’ll talk about today,
0:01:26 and the other chemicals in the brain and body
0:01:30 that are responsible for the process we call social bonding,
0:01:33 are not unique to particular social bonds.
0:01:35 They are generic.
0:01:37 What I mean by that is that the same brain circuits
0:01:40 that are responsible for establishing a bond
0:01:42 between parent and child,
0:01:45 are actually repurposed in romantic relationships.
0:01:47 Before we talk about social bonding,
0:01:49 I want to talk about its mirror image,
0:01:52 which is lack of social bonding or social isolation.
0:01:54 Well, many people like time alone,
0:01:55 but when we talk about social isolation,
0:02:00 what we’re referring to is when animals or humans
0:02:03 are restricted from having the social contacts
0:02:05 that they would prefer to have.
0:02:08 And to just briefly touch on the major takeaways
0:02:09 from this literature,
0:02:12 which spans back a hundred years or more,
0:02:16 being socially isolated is stressful.
0:02:19 And one of the hallmark features of social isolation
0:02:23 is chronically elevated stress hormones like adrenaline,
0:02:25 also called epinephrine, like cortisol,
0:02:27 a stress hormone that at healthy levels
0:02:30 is good for combating inflammation,
0:02:32 helps us have energy early in the day,
0:02:33 focus throughout the day.
0:02:36 But if cortisol is elevated for too long,
0:02:39 which is the consequence of social isolation,
0:02:42 the immune system suffers and other chemicals
0:02:44 start to be released in the brain and body
0:02:47 that are designed to motivate the organism,
0:02:49 animal or human to seek out social bonds.
0:02:51 So if you’re somebody who’s socially isolated
0:02:53 and is craving social contact,
0:02:55 that is a healthy craving.
0:02:57 And as we’ll learn next,
0:02:59 the healthy craving for social contact
0:03:01 has a very specific brain circuit,
0:03:03 has a very specific neurochemical signature
0:03:05 associated with it and has some remarkable features
0:03:09 that you can leverage in social contacts of all kinds.
0:03:10 I’d like to take a quick break
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0:04:45 Much like hunger, much like temperature, much like thirst,
0:04:48 we have brain circuits that are devoted
0:04:52 to what’s called a social homeostasis.
0:04:55 Homeostasis is the characteristic
0:04:56 of various biological circuits
0:04:58 and even individual cells
0:05:00 to try and maintain a certain level.
0:05:02 It’s most easily thought of in the context of hunger.
0:05:03 If you don’t eat for a while,
0:05:06 your drive to pursue food and think about food
0:05:09 and make food and spend money on food
0:05:13 and indeed to enjoy food goes up.
0:05:14 Whereas when you’re well-fed,
0:05:16 you don’t tend to seek out food
0:05:19 with as much vigor or as much intensity.
0:05:21 So that’s a simple way of thinking about homeostasis.
0:05:25 Every homeostatic circuit has three components
0:05:26 or at least three.
0:05:27 One is a detector,
0:05:31 meaning the organism or the thermostat on your wall
0:05:33 has to have some way of detecting
0:05:36 what’s going on in the environment, all right?
0:05:38 In the context of social bonding,
0:05:40 whether or not you are interacting with others
0:05:42 and whether or not those interactions are going well.
0:05:43 So that has to be detected.
0:05:44 That’s the first thing.
0:05:46 Then there has to be a control center.
0:05:46 That’s the second thing.
0:05:49 And the control center is the one
0:05:51 that makes the adjustments to,
0:05:53 in the case of social bonding,
0:05:55 to your behavior and to your psychology.
0:05:58 Now, the third component of this homeostatic circuit
0:06:00 is the effector.
0:06:03 The effector is actually what drives the behavioral response.
0:06:06 It’s what leads you to pick up your social media
0:06:07 and start scrolling.
0:06:09 It’s what leads you to text a friend.
0:06:11 So again, those three components are a detector,
0:06:14 a control center, and an effector.
0:06:16 And as you’ll soon learn,
0:06:19 the neural circuit that controls this social homeostasis
0:06:21 actually has a fourth component.
0:06:23 And that fourth component is one
0:06:25 that places subjective understanding
0:06:27 as to why you are doing what you are doing
0:06:31 and establishes your place in a hierarchy.
0:06:33 When we talk about social hierarchies
0:06:35 in the context of human interactions,
0:06:38 social hierarchies are very plastic,
0:06:40 meaning in one setting,
0:06:42 one person can be the leader.
0:06:43 In another setting,
0:06:44 the other person can be the leader.
0:06:46 Hierarchies are very dynamic.
0:06:47 And as a consequence,
0:06:51 social bonding has to be very plastic and very fluid
0:06:53 so that you move from one environment to the next,
0:06:55 even with the same people,
0:06:57 you have to be able to make those adjustments.
0:07:00 And in the case of the social homeostasis circuit,
0:07:01 those adjustments are made
0:07:03 by a particular brain structure.
0:07:05 I’ve talked about on this podcast before.
0:07:06 It’s called the prefrontal cortex.
0:07:08 It is the seat of our higher consciousness,
0:07:09 if you will.
0:07:12 It’s what allows us to place subjective labels on things.
0:07:14 So we are not strictly input-output.
0:07:16 We are not robotic.
0:07:19 The detector that underlies social homeostasis
0:07:22 involves mainly two structures.
0:07:23 One is called the ACC,
0:07:24 the anterior cingulate cortex,
0:07:26 and the other is the BLA,
0:07:27 basolateral amygdala.
0:07:28 And when you hear the word amygdala,
0:07:30 you’re probably thinking fear.
0:07:31 But today,
0:07:31 as you’ll see,
0:07:34 the amygdala actually has many different sub-compartments
0:07:35 and components.
0:07:38 And there’s a reason why the basolateral amygdala,
0:07:40 which is associated with certain aspects
0:07:42 of aversive behaviors,
0:07:44 meaning moving away from certain types of things
0:07:45 or interactions,
0:07:46 there’s a reason why the BLA
0:07:49 is such an integral part of the detector system.
0:07:52 And that’s because just as it’s important
0:07:53 to form healthy social bonds,
0:07:54 it’s vitally important
0:07:57 to try and avoid unhealthy social bonds.
0:08:00 So we’ve got the ACC and the BLA.
0:08:01 These are areas that are mainly involved
0:08:03 in moving away from things,
0:08:04 although also toward them.
0:08:05 That’s the detector.
0:08:06 Then we’ve got the control center,
0:08:08 which is in the hypothalamus.
0:08:11 And then there’s a very special
0:08:14 and important area associated with social bonding
0:08:15 that I want everyone to learn,
0:08:19 which is the dorsal raphe nucleus or DRN,
0:08:20 dorsal raphe nucleus.
0:08:23 The dorsal raphe nucleus is a small collection of neurons
0:08:24 in the midbrain.
0:08:25 So it’s deep in the brain.
0:08:29 And most of the time when you hear about raphe,
0:08:32 R-A-P-H-E, by the way, raphe nucleus,
0:08:34 you’re talking about serotonin.
0:08:36 Serotonin is a neuromodulator
0:08:39 that is often associated with feelings of satiety
0:08:40 after eating,
0:08:44 basically satisfaction with things that you already have.
0:08:48 However, within this dorsal raphe nucleus,
0:08:51 there is a small subset of neurons that release dopamine.
0:08:54 Dopamine is a neuromodulator most often associated
0:08:58 with movement, craving, motivation, and desire.
0:09:01 This unique population of dopamine neurons in the raphe
0:09:05 is truly unique in that it’s responsible for mediating
0:09:08 what I’ve been calling social homeostasis.
0:09:11 It is the effector or the response
0:09:13 that mediates social homeostasis.
0:09:15 In most popular conversations about dopamine,
0:09:17 and even in scientific circles,
0:09:18 when you hear dopamine release,
0:09:20 you think about reward or feeling good.
0:09:24 However, dopamine is not associated with feeling good.
0:09:27 It is actually the neurochemical that’s responsible
0:09:30 for movement toward things that feel good.
0:09:33 So to zoom out and conceptualize what we have here,
0:09:36 we have a brain area that is a detector
0:09:38 that either will move us toward or away
0:09:41 from certain types of experiences or sensations.
0:09:45 We have a control center that is going to release
0:09:47 certain hormones and neuropeptides
0:09:48 into our brain and blood,
0:09:50 depending on the sorts of interactions
0:09:51 that we happen to be having.
0:09:54 And we have this response system,
0:09:56 which is the dorsal raphe nucleus
0:09:57 that contains dopamine neurons.
0:09:59 If you’re somebody who is accustomed
0:10:01 to a lot of social interaction,
0:10:05 and suddenly I take away that social interaction,
0:10:08 you would feel kind of let down.
0:10:10 You would crave a replacement social interaction.
0:10:11 Okay?
0:10:13 This is called a pro-social craving.
0:10:14 And indeed,
0:10:16 this is what you see in animals and humans.
0:10:17 If you,
0:10:20 what’s called acutely isolate them,
0:10:22 which is just a fancy scientific word of saying,
0:10:24 deprive them of social interactions
0:10:25 in a short-term basis,
0:10:28 they start engaging in pro-social behavior.
0:10:30 So the takeaway is that
0:10:32 when we lack social interaction that we expect,
0:10:34 we become pro-social.
0:10:34 However,
0:10:38 if we are chronically socially isolated,
0:10:40 meaning we don’t have interactions
0:10:41 with people for a long time,
0:10:44 we become actually more introverted.
0:10:45 It’s well-established now
0:10:47 that in humans and in animals,
0:10:50 if you don’t give them enough social interaction,
0:10:52 they actually become antisocial.
0:10:55 The social homeostasis circuit works in a way
0:10:58 such that when we don’t have social interactions
0:10:59 for a very long time,
0:11:03 we start to lose our craving for social interactions.
0:11:05 Let’s look at the social homeostasis circuit
0:11:07 through the lens of what’s commonly called
0:11:09 introversion and extroversion.
0:11:12 Now, typically when we hear about introverts,
0:11:14 we think about the quiet person at the party
0:11:15 or the person that doesn’t want to go out at all.
0:11:17 And we think about an extrovert
0:11:18 as somebody who’s really social,
0:11:20 the so-called social butterfly,
0:11:21 who enjoys social interactions,
0:11:23 is really chatty,
0:11:24 is kind of life of the party type person.
0:11:26 But actually in the psychology literature,
0:11:28 that’s not really the way it holds up.
0:11:31 If we look at introversion and extroversion
0:11:32 through this lens
0:11:34 of the social homeostatic set point,
0:11:35 and we think about dopamine
0:11:38 as this molecule that drives motivation
0:11:40 to seek out social interactions,
0:11:43 what we can reasonably assume
0:11:45 is that introverts are people
0:11:48 that when they engage in certain forms
0:11:49 of social interaction,
0:11:53 either the amount of dopamine that’s released
0:11:56 is greater than it is in an extrovert.
0:11:57 That’s right.
0:11:58 I said greater than it is in an extrovert.
0:12:01 And so they actually feel quite motivated,
0:12:04 but also satisfied by very brief
0:12:08 or we could say sort of sparse social interactions.
0:12:10 They don’t need a lot of social engagement
0:12:11 to feel sated.
0:12:13 Whereas the extrovert,
0:12:15 we can reasonably assume,
0:12:17 releases less dopamine
0:12:20 in response to an individual social interaction.
0:12:22 And so they need much more social interaction
0:12:25 in order to feel filled up by that interaction.
0:12:27 Now there’s the fourth component
0:12:29 of this social homeostasis circuit
0:12:29 that I mentioned before,
0:12:31 and that’s the prefrontal cortex.
0:12:33 The prefrontal cortex is involved
0:12:34 in thinking and planning and action,
0:12:36 and it has extensive connections
0:12:39 with areas of the brain like the hypothalamus,
0:12:42 which is responsible for a lot of motivated drives.
0:12:43 It also has connections
0:12:46 with the various reward centers of the brain,
0:12:48 and it can act as kind of an accelerator,
0:12:51 meaning it can encourage more electrical activity
0:12:53 of other brain centers
0:12:55 or as a break on those brain centers.
0:12:58 So while there are some predictable elements
0:12:59 of these circuits,
0:13:01 they are not simply what we would call plug and chug.
0:13:02 You have flexibility.
0:13:03 You are able to say,
0:13:04 you know, I love parties,
0:13:06 but I really don’t want to go to that party
0:13:07 because so-and-so is there.
0:13:09 So now I’d like to drill a little bit deeper
0:13:11 into this incredible neural structure
0:13:14 that is the dorsal raphe nucleus
0:13:16 and this small collection of neurons,
0:13:18 the dopamine neurons of the dorsal raphe,
0:13:19 because while it’s a small collection,
0:13:21 they are very powerful.
0:13:23 And it is this dorsal raphe nucleus
0:13:25 and the dopamine neurons in that nucleus
0:13:27 that underlie the bond that is social friendship
0:13:29 and all types of social bonds.
0:13:31 There’s a key finding in the literature.
0:13:33 The title of this paper is
0:13:35 Dorsal Raphe Dopamine Neurons Represent
0:13:37 the Experience of Social Isolation.
0:13:39 This is a paper from Kay Tai’s lab.
0:13:40 What they did is they were able
0:13:43 to selectively activate the dopamine neurons
0:13:44 in the dorsal raphe nucleus.
0:13:46 And when they did that,
0:13:49 they induced a loneliness-like state.
0:13:50 Now, how did they know
0:13:51 it was a loneliness-like state?
0:13:53 They knew because it motivated
0:13:55 the seeking out of social connections.
0:13:57 This is the kind of social hunger
0:13:58 that I was referring to before.
0:14:01 Whereas when the dopamine neurons
0:14:03 of the dorsal raphe are inhibited,
0:14:04 meaning their activity is quieted,
0:14:09 that suppressed a loneliness state.
0:14:11 So that’s a little counterintuitive, right?
0:14:14 It’s a group of neurons that when activated,
0:14:15 makes you feel lonely.
0:14:19 And when this brain area is not activated,
0:14:21 it suppresses loneliness.
0:14:22 But if you think about it,
0:14:24 that’s exactly the kind of circuit
0:14:25 that you would want
0:14:27 in order to drive social behavior.
0:14:29 When you’re feeling lonely,
0:14:30 dopamine is released
0:14:31 and it causes you to go out
0:14:32 and seek social interactions.
0:14:35 So what we think of as loneliness
0:14:38 as this big kind of dark cloud
0:14:41 or fog in our psychological landscape
0:14:43 boils down to a very small set of neurons
0:14:46 releasing a specific neurochemical for motivation.
0:14:48 So just a couple of key points
0:14:49 and actionable takeaways
0:14:50 based on the information
0:14:51 I’ve offered up until now.
0:14:55 If you think of yourself as an introvert,
0:14:59 it’s very likely that you get a lot of dopamine
0:15:02 from a few or minimal social interactions.
0:15:04 Whereas if you’re an extrovert,
0:15:06 contrary to what you might think,
0:15:08 social interactions are not going to flood
0:15:09 your system with dopamine.
0:15:12 they actually are going to lead
0:15:14 to less dopamine release
0:15:15 than it would for an introvert.
0:15:17 And therefore you’re going to need
0:15:18 a lot more social interactions
0:15:20 in order to feel filled up
0:15:21 by those interactions.
0:15:23 Now I’d like to shift gears a bit
0:15:27 and focus on what are some things
0:15:27 that we can do
0:15:31 to encourage the formation of healthy bonds.
0:15:33 There’s a beautiful study
0:15:35 that was published in Cell Reports,
0:15:36 Cell Press Journal, excellent journal.
0:15:38 The title of this paper
0:15:40 is Conscious Processing of Narrative Stimuli
0:15:42 Synchronizes Heart Rate Between Individuals.
0:15:44 Now, this study involved
0:15:46 a very simple type of experiment.
0:15:48 They had people listen to a story.
0:15:50 Everybody in the study listened to the same story,
0:15:51 but they listened to that story
0:15:52 at different times
0:15:53 and indeed in different locations.
0:15:57 So different people, same story.
0:15:59 And they measured things like heart rate.
0:16:00 They measured breathing, et cetera.
0:16:03 Now, what was the motivation for doing this?
0:16:05 Well, there’s a longstanding literature
0:16:08 showing that our physiology,
0:16:09 things like our heart rate, our breathing,
0:16:10 our skin conductance,
0:16:12 meaning the amount of sweating,
0:16:16 can be synchronized between individuals.
0:16:18 And that synchronization can occur
0:16:21 according to a variety of different things.
0:16:22 What this study found
0:16:25 was that when people listen to the same story,
0:16:26 but at different times,
0:16:28 their heart rates start to synchronize.
0:16:31 Now, we also know from an extensive literature
0:16:35 that the quality and perceived depth
0:16:39 of a social bond correlates very strongly
0:16:43 with how much physiological synchronization
0:16:44 there is between individuals.
0:16:46 In other words,
0:16:48 when your bodies feel the same,
0:16:52 you tend to feel more bonded to somebody else.
0:16:53 And so this whole thing
0:16:55 is a rather circular argument.
0:16:56 When you feel closer to somebody else,
0:16:58 your physiology synchronize.
0:17:00 And the reverse is true as well.
0:17:02 When your physiologies are synchronized,
0:17:04 you feel closer to other people.
0:17:06 This really points to the fact
0:17:08 that the body and the brain
0:17:09 are reciprocally connected.
0:17:11 Yes, indeed, what we think,
0:17:12 what we hear, what we feel
0:17:15 drives our physiology,
0:17:17 our heartbeat, our respiration, et cetera.
0:17:18 But our heartbeat and respiration
0:17:21 also are influencing our state of mind.
0:17:22 And in this case,
0:17:25 it’s encouraging certain types of social bonds
0:17:27 when our heart rates are synchronized.
0:17:29 How can you leverage this?
0:17:30 Well, many people,
0:17:32 when they interact with others,
0:17:35 expect that the mere interaction
0:17:36 with the other person
0:17:38 is going to create the sense of bonding.
0:17:41 But in many types of social interactions,
0:17:44 it’s not the direct interaction
0:17:45 with that person
0:17:46 that makes us feel close to them,
0:17:48 but rather it’s shared experience.
0:17:51 And shared experience
0:17:52 is shared physiology.
0:17:54 This is actually at the seat
0:17:56 of what we come away
0:17:57 from a social interaction with
0:17:58 as feeling,
0:18:00 wow, that was a really wonderful time.
0:18:02 Often, a really wonderful time
0:18:03 can be by virtue
0:18:04 of the specific things that were said
0:18:06 or the specific things
0:18:07 that one engaged in.
0:18:09 But more often than not,
0:18:10 the final common pathway,
0:18:11 we should say,
0:18:13 of great experiences
0:18:15 was a great physiological experience
0:18:18 and a shared physiological experience.
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0:19:23 and because I track my sleep.
0:19:24 I’m excited for everyone
0:19:25 to try this new AGZ formulation
0:19:27 and to enjoy the benefits
0:19:28 of better sleep.
0:19:30 AGZ is available in chocolate,
0:19:30 chocolate mint,
0:19:31 and mixed berry flavors.
0:19:33 And as I mentioned before,
0:19:34 they’re all extremely delicious.
0:19:35 My favorite of the three
0:19:36 has to be,
0:19:37 I think, chocolate mint,
0:19:38 but I really like them all.
0:19:40 If you’d like to try AGZ,
0:19:42 go to drinkagz.com
0:19:43 slash Huberman
0:19:44 to get a special offer.
0:19:45 Again, that’s
0:19:46 drinkagz.com
0:19:47 slash Huberman.
0:19:49 Up until now,
0:19:49 we’ve been talking
0:19:50 about social bonding
0:19:51 through the lens
0:19:52 of neural circuits
0:19:53 that are already established.
0:19:54 However,
0:19:55 these very neural circuits
0:19:56 that are responsible
0:19:57 for social bonding
0:19:59 in adult forms
0:19:59 of attachment,
0:20:00 be it romantic
0:20:01 or friendship
0:20:02 or otherwise,
0:20:03 are actually established
0:20:04 during development.
0:20:06 one of the more important
0:20:08 and I think exciting areas
0:20:10 of early attachment
0:20:11 as it relates
0:20:12 to adult attachment
0:20:13 comes to us
0:20:14 from the work
0:20:15 of Alan Shore.
0:20:16 Alan Shore,
0:20:18 spelled A-L-L-A-N,
0:20:19 Shore,
0:20:21 S-C-H-O-R-E,
0:20:22 is a psychoanalyst
0:20:22 who also has
0:20:23 deep understanding
0:20:25 of neurobiology
0:20:26 of attachment,
0:20:28 both in childhood
0:20:29 and in adulthood.
0:20:31 And he’s focused
0:20:33 a lot on differences
0:20:34 between right brain
0:20:35 and left brain
0:20:36 forms of attachment.
0:20:37 Now,
0:20:38 in an early episode
0:20:39 of the Huberman Lab podcast,
0:20:41 I touched into the fact
0:20:42 that most of what’s
0:20:44 discussed in the general public
0:20:45 in sort of pop psychology
0:20:47 and even in some
0:20:48 neurobiology courses
0:20:50 about right brain
0:20:51 versus left brain
0:20:52 and one side of the brain
0:20:53 being more emotional
0:20:53 and the other side
0:20:54 being more rational
0:20:56 is completely wrong.
0:20:57 However,
0:20:58 the work of Alan Shore
0:20:59 points to some
0:21:01 very concrete neural circuits
0:21:03 that do have
0:21:05 a lateralization bias,
0:21:05 meaning they are
0:21:06 more right brain
0:21:07 than left brain
0:21:08 or more left brain
0:21:08 than right brain
0:21:10 that underlie
0:21:11 certain forms
0:21:11 of attachment
0:21:13 between child
0:21:13 and parent,
0:21:14 in particular,
0:21:15 child and mother,
0:21:17 and that these
0:21:19 right brain isms,
0:21:20 if you will,
0:21:21 and left brain isms
0:21:22 for attachment
0:21:24 get played out
0:21:25 again and again
0:21:26 in our forms
0:21:27 of attachment
0:21:28 as adults.
0:21:29 So within the field
0:21:30 of psychoanalysis,
0:21:31 there’s a longstanding
0:21:32 discussion,
0:21:32 of course,
0:21:33 about the so-called
0:21:34 unconscious or subconscious,
0:21:35 the things that we are
0:21:36 not aware of.
0:21:37 And I think there’s
0:21:38 growing evidence
0:21:39 pointing to the fact
0:21:40 that at least
0:21:41 one major component
0:21:42 of the subconscious
0:21:43 or the unconscious
0:21:44 is the so-called
0:21:45 autonomic nervous system.
0:21:47 The autonomic nervous system
0:21:48 is the portion
0:21:49 of our nervous system
0:21:49 that controls
0:21:50 our reflexive breathing,
0:21:51 our heart rate,
0:21:53 our skin conductance,
0:21:54 meaning our sweating,
0:21:55 pupil size.
0:21:57 It’s the aspect
0:21:58 of our nervous system
0:21:58 that makes us
0:21:59 more alert
0:22:00 or more calm.
0:22:01 It’s the so-called
0:22:02 sympathetic meaning
0:22:03 for alertness
0:22:04 or parasympathetic branch
0:22:05 of the autonomic nervous system,
0:22:06 parasympathetic
0:22:07 for more calming responses.
0:22:08 Now,
0:22:11 what Dr. Shore’s work
0:22:12 and the work
0:22:12 of others
0:22:13 is now showing
0:22:14 is that
0:22:17 early infant parent,
0:22:17 in particular,
0:22:18 infant mother attachment
0:22:19 involves
0:22:21 a coordination
0:22:22 or synchronization
0:22:23 of these
0:22:24 right brain circuits
0:22:25 and these
0:22:26 left brain circuits
0:22:28 as they relate,
0:22:28 excuse me,
0:22:29 to the autonomic
0:22:30 nervous system.
0:22:32 How does this play out?
0:22:32 Well,
0:22:33 it plays out
0:22:34 where early on
0:22:34 as an infant,
0:22:35 when you’re born,
0:22:36 you’re truly helpless.
0:22:37 You can’t feed yourself.
0:22:39 You can’t warm yourself.
0:22:40 You can’t change yourself.
0:22:40 And you certainly
0:22:41 can’t ambulate,
0:22:42 walk anywhere
0:22:43 to get the things
0:22:44 that you need.
0:22:46 All of those functions,
0:22:48 all of those needs,
0:22:48 rather,
0:22:49 are met
0:22:50 by your primary caretaker.
0:22:51 Typically,
0:22:52 that’s the mother.
0:22:53 I realize there are exceptions,
0:22:54 but that’s the general rule.
0:22:55 There are now
0:22:57 brain imaging studies
0:22:58 examining the brains
0:22:59 of infants
0:23:00 and the brains
0:23:00 of mothers
0:23:02 as they interact
0:23:02 and showing
0:23:04 that the physical contact
0:23:05 between the two,
0:23:07 the breathing
0:23:08 of the mother and child,
0:23:09 the heart rate
0:23:11 of the mother and child,
0:23:11 and indeed,
0:23:12 the pupil size
0:23:13 of the mother and child
0:23:14 are actually actively
0:23:15 getting coordinated.
0:23:16 In other words,
0:23:17 the mother is regulating
0:23:18 the infant’s
0:23:19 autonomic nervous system,
0:23:20 primarily,
0:23:21 and the infant
0:23:22 is also regulating
0:23:22 the mother’s
0:23:23 autonomic nervous system.
0:23:24 A small coup
0:23:25 from a baby
0:23:26 or a cry,
0:23:27 which is a stress cry
0:23:27 from a baby,
0:23:29 will definitely regulate
0:23:30 the autonomic nervous system
0:23:30 of the mother.
0:23:31 Now,
0:23:33 as we get older,
0:23:35 there’s another system
0:23:36 that starts to come
0:23:36 into play
0:23:39 in parent-child interactions,
0:23:40 and this also comes
0:23:41 into play
0:23:42 in sibling interactions
0:23:42 and so forth,
0:23:44 and that’s the left brain
0:23:45 system as described
0:23:46 by Alan Short.
0:23:46 Now, again,
0:23:47 this isn’t about
0:23:49 emotion versus rationality.
0:23:50 this is about autonomic
0:23:51 versus more conscious
0:23:52 forms of bonding.
0:23:53 So on the left brain
0:23:54 side of things,
0:23:56 there is a processing
0:23:58 more of narratives
0:23:59 that are very concrete,
0:24:00 logical narratives,
0:24:01 okay?
0:24:01 And again,
0:24:02 I have to zoom out
0:24:04 and just really
0:24:05 tamp down the idea
0:24:06 that it’s not
0:24:06 that one side
0:24:06 of the brain
0:24:07 is emotional
0:24:08 and the other side
0:24:09 is rational,
0:24:09 but rather,
0:24:10 there’s a bit
0:24:11 of a dominance
0:24:12 for the left brain
0:24:13 circuitry
0:24:14 to be involved
0:24:14 in the kinds
0:24:15 of bonding
0:24:16 that are associated
0:24:17 with prediction
0:24:17 and reward.
0:24:18 The idea
0:24:18 is that there are
0:24:20 two parallel circuits
0:24:22 that are important
0:24:23 for establishing bonds
0:24:24 and that this is set up
0:24:25 very early on
0:24:26 in childhood
0:24:27 and that it’s
0:24:28 neither emotional
0:24:29 nor rational,
0:24:30 but both.
0:24:31 What’s becoming clear
0:24:32 from the neurobiological
0:24:33 imaging studies
0:24:35 is that as people
0:24:37 start to advance
0:24:38 into adolescence
0:24:39 and adulthood
0:24:40 and well into
0:24:42 their elderly years,
0:24:44 the same circuits
0:24:44 that were active
0:24:45 and established
0:24:46 in childhood
0:24:47 are repurposed
0:24:49 for other forms
0:24:49 of attachment
0:24:51 and that to have
0:24:53 truly complete bonds
0:24:54 with other individuals,
0:24:55 but in particular
0:24:56 with romantic partners,
0:24:57 it’s important
0:24:58 that there be
0:24:59 both synchronization
0:25:00 of physiology
0:25:01 and synchronization
0:25:02 of these more,
0:25:03 I guess we could call
0:25:04 them more rational
0:25:05 or predictive
0:25:06 type circuits.
0:25:08 So we can leverage
0:25:09 this information.
0:25:10 In the clinical psychology
0:25:11 and in the neurobiological
0:25:12 literature now,
0:25:14 it’s understood
0:25:15 that there is both
0:25:16 emotional empathy,
0:25:18 like actually feeling
0:25:19 what somebody is feeling
0:25:20 and what is now
0:25:21 called cognitive empathy.
0:25:23 Cognitive empathy
0:25:24 is this idea
0:25:24 that we both
0:25:26 see and experience
0:25:27 something the same way
0:25:28 at a mental level.
0:25:30 Emotional empathy
0:25:31 is this idea
0:25:31 that yes,
0:25:32 I can feel
0:25:33 what you feel
0:25:34 at a visceral
0:25:35 somatic
0:25:36 or autonomic level
0:25:39 and it’s absolutely clear
0:25:41 that strong social bonds
0:25:42 between children
0:25:43 and caretaker
0:25:44 involve both
0:25:45 emotional empathy,
0:25:46 this autonomic function
0:25:48 and cognitive empathy,
0:25:48 that there’s
0:25:50 a mutual understanding
0:25:52 of how the other person
0:25:52 feels
0:25:54 and how the other person
0:25:55 thinks
0:25:56 in order to be able
0:25:56 to make predictions
0:25:58 about what they’re going to do.
0:25:59 Now, it’s also very clear
0:26:00 based on the emerging literature
0:26:02 that romantic relationships
0:26:04 and to some extent
0:26:04 friendships,
0:26:05 although friendships
0:26:06 have been explored
0:26:07 a bit less
0:26:08 in the literature,
0:26:09 that emotional empathy
0:26:11 and cognitive empathy
0:26:12 are both required
0:26:13 in order to establish
0:26:14 what we call
0:26:16 a trusting social bond.
0:26:17 So for those of you
0:26:17 that are seeking
0:26:19 to establish deeper bonds
0:26:20 or bonds of any kind,
0:26:21 it’s important
0:26:22 that you think about
0:26:23 synchronization
0:26:24 of bodily states,
0:26:25 we talked about that earlier
0:26:27 and synchronization
0:26:28 of cognitive states.
0:26:28 Now, that doesn’t mean
0:26:29 you have to agree
0:26:29 on everything.
0:26:30 In fact, oftentimes
0:26:32 people who feel
0:26:33 very close to one another
0:26:35 cognitively and emotionally
0:26:36 argue about all sorts of things
0:26:37 and disagree about
0:26:38 a lot of things.
0:26:39 But the point isn’t
0:26:39 that there be total
0:26:41 convergence of opinion
0:26:42 or stance,
0:26:43 but rather
0:26:44 that we understand
0:26:45 how the other feels
0:26:46 and we believe
0:26:47 that they understand
0:26:48 how we feel,
0:26:49 that we understand
0:26:50 how the other person thinks
0:26:52 and that they think
0:26:53 that we understand
0:26:54 how they think.
0:26:56 So it’s a reciprocal loop
0:26:56 between two people
0:26:58 that involves this cognition
0:26:59 and involves emotion
0:27:00 and it’s grounded,
0:27:03 as Dr. Schor has pointed out,
0:27:04 in our earliest forms
0:27:05 of attachment
0:27:06 and that makes perfect sense
0:27:08 because the same sorts
0:27:08 of circuits
0:27:09 that are responsible
0:27:11 for social homeostasis,
0:27:12 the kind of right brain
0:27:13 and left brain circuits
0:27:13 that are responsible
0:27:16 for infant mother attachment
0:27:17 and then later
0:27:19 for more intellectual
0:27:20 or predictive type attachments
0:27:22 between child and caregiver
0:27:24 are the exact same circuits
0:27:25 that we superimpose
0:27:26 into all other types
0:27:27 of relationships
0:27:28 throughout the rest
0:27:28 of our life.
0:27:30 And I should just mention
0:27:31 that for those of you
0:27:32 that might be thinking
0:27:34 that you had
0:27:36 a less than satisfactory
0:27:38 infant-caretaker interaction
0:27:40 or form of attachment,
0:27:41 you are not alone.
0:27:42 And in fact,
0:27:43 much of the work
0:27:44 that Dr. Schor focuses on
0:27:45 is about how
0:27:47 those early circumstances
0:27:48 can be understood
0:27:49 and rewired
0:27:50 toward the development
0:27:52 of healthy adult attachment.
0:27:53 I’d like to take a quick break
0:27:54 and acknowledge
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0:28:13 These bars from David
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0:28:15 Right now,
0:28:16 my favorite flavor
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0:28:18 but I also like
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0:28:21 and I also like
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0:28:22 Basically,
0:28:24 I like all the flavors.
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0:28:26 Also, big news,
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0:28:34 By eating a David bar,
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0:28:36 28 grams of protein
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0:28:39 my protein goals
0:28:41 of one gram of protein
0:28:42 per pound of body weight
0:28:42 per day
0:28:43 and to do so
0:28:44 without eating
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0:28:46 I generally eat
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0:28:48 and I always keep
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0:28:49 when I’m away
0:28:50 from home
0:28:50 or traveling
0:28:51 because they’re
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0:28:53 to get enough protein.
0:28:54 As I mentioned,
0:28:55 they’re incredibly delicious
0:28:56 and given that
0:28:57 28 grams of protein,
0:28:58 they’re pretty filling
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0:29:01 between meals as well.
0:29:02 If you’d like to try David,
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0:29:06 Again,
0:29:06 that’s
0:29:08 davidprotein.com
0:29:09 slash Huberman.
0:29:10 One of the key themes
0:29:11 to understand
0:29:12 about biological processes
0:29:13 is that
0:29:14 they often work
0:29:16 on short timescales
0:29:17 and longer timescales
0:29:18 and up until now,
0:29:19 we’ve mainly been talking
0:29:19 about the stuff
0:29:20 that happens
0:29:21 on short timescales.
0:29:22 So the kind of
0:29:23 synchronization of heart rate
0:29:24 or activation
0:29:25 of a given set of neurons
0:29:26 that dumps some dopamine
0:29:27 and causes us
0:29:28 to seek out
0:29:29 more social interaction
0:29:30 or less,
0:29:31 for instance.
0:29:33 But every biological circuit
0:29:34 and function
0:29:35 needs to have
0:29:36 longstanding effects
0:29:37 as well
0:29:38 and typically
0:29:38 when you’re thinking
0:29:39 about longstanding
0:29:39 effects
0:29:40 in the brain
0:29:40 and body,
0:29:41 you start looking
0:29:42 towards the hormone system.
0:29:44 So if ever
0:29:45 there was a hormone
0:29:47 or hormone-like molecule
0:29:48 that’s associated
0:29:48 with social bonding,
0:29:50 it’s oxytocin.
0:29:52 Oxytocin is involved
0:29:54 in social recognition.
0:29:55 That’s right.
0:29:56 When you see people
0:29:57 that you consider
0:29:57 your people,
0:29:59 your team,
0:30:00 your group,
0:30:01 your friends,
0:30:02 oxytocin is released
0:30:03 even if you don’t
0:30:03 come into physical
0:30:04 contact with them.
0:30:06 Oxytocin is also
0:30:08 associated with pair bonding,
0:30:09 the feeling that
0:30:10 they are your person
0:30:11 and that you are
0:30:12 their person
0:30:13 is the common language
0:30:14 people use.
0:30:15 It’s also associated
0:30:16 with honesty.
0:30:18 Believe it or not,
0:30:18 there are experiments
0:30:19 that show that
0:30:20 if people receive
0:30:21 oxytocin
0:30:23 through an inhalation spray,
0:30:24 that they will be more
0:30:25 honest and forthcoming
0:30:26 about certain things.
0:30:27 The main types
0:30:28 of interactions
0:30:29 that release oxytocin
0:30:30 at high levels
0:30:32 are, first of all,
0:30:33 that the interaction
0:30:34 be between individuals
0:30:35 that see each other
0:30:37 as very closely
0:30:39 associated, right?
0:30:39 Oftentimes they are
0:30:40 in close contact,
0:30:41 oftentimes they are
0:30:42 from the very body
0:30:43 of the other
0:30:45 and so the amount
0:30:45 or the amplitude
0:30:47 of oxytocin release
0:30:47 tends to scale
0:30:48 with how closely
0:30:49 associated individuals
0:30:49 are.
0:30:50 Just the sight
0:30:51 of one’s baby
0:30:53 or smell of one’s baby
0:30:54 can evoke oxytocin release
0:30:55 and vice versa
0:30:56 from the mother.
0:30:57 Physical contact
0:30:58 even more so
0:31:00 in romantic partners.
0:31:02 Physical contact,
0:31:03 even the sight
0:31:03 of a picture
0:31:04 of a partner
0:31:06 can evoke oxytocin release
0:31:08 and sexual desire,
0:31:09 also trust.
0:31:10 And it’s important
0:31:10 to point out
0:31:11 that that feeling
0:31:12 of connection
0:31:14 is of the autonomic type
0:31:15 that I was referring
0:31:15 to earlier
0:31:17 a la Alan Shore’s work.
0:31:18 That it’s not of the,
0:31:20 oh, we think about things
0:31:20 the exact same way,
0:31:22 we agree on everything now.
0:31:22 It’s more of
0:31:24 that their physiologies
0:31:25 are synchronized.
0:31:26 But the point here
0:31:27 is that there’s
0:31:29 actually a hormonal glue
0:31:30 between individuals,
0:31:31 okay?
0:31:32 Infant and mother,
0:31:33 friends,
0:31:34 teammates,
0:31:35 romantic partners,
0:31:36 and so on.
0:31:37 And that hormonal glue
0:31:38 is oxytocin.
0:31:40 So we’ve covered a lot
0:31:41 about the biology
0:31:41 and indeed
0:31:42 the neural circuitry
0:31:43 and neurochemistry
0:31:45 and neuroendocrinology
0:31:46 of social bonding.
0:31:48 I want to make sure
0:31:48 that I highlight
0:31:49 the key features
0:31:50 that go into
0:31:51 any and all
0:31:52 of your social bonds.
0:31:54 First of all,
0:31:55 all social bonds
0:31:56 have the potential
0:31:57 to include both
0:31:58 what we called
0:31:59 emotional empathy
0:32:00 and cognitive empathy.
0:32:01 And so if you are
0:32:03 interested in establishing
0:32:04 and deepening
0:32:05 social bonds
0:32:05 of any kind,
0:32:06 it’s important
0:32:08 that you put
0:32:08 some effort
0:32:09 toward this thing
0:32:10 that we call
0:32:10 emotional empathy,
0:32:11 which is really
0:32:12 about sharing
0:32:14 autonomic experience.
0:32:15 Emotional empathy
0:32:16 and the synchronization
0:32:17 of autonomic function,
0:32:18 heart rate,
0:32:18 breathing,
0:32:19 et cetera,
0:32:21 can be best accomplished
0:32:22 by paying attention
0:32:23 to external events
0:32:24 in particular narrative,
0:32:24 story,
0:32:25 music,
0:32:26 perhaps sports
0:32:27 or other types
0:32:27 of experience
0:32:28 as an external stimulus
0:32:30 to drive synchrony
0:32:31 of those internal states.
0:32:33 The other aspect
0:32:34 of forming deep bonds
0:32:35 is cognitive empathy.
0:32:36 Again,
0:32:37 cognitive empathy
0:32:39 is not about agreeing
0:32:40 on things
0:32:41 or viewing things
0:32:42 the exact same way.
0:32:43 It’s about really
0:32:44 gaining understanding
0:32:46 of how somebody else
0:32:47 thinks about something,
0:32:48 really paying attention
0:32:48 to that
0:32:50 and then paying attention
0:32:51 to how you think
0:32:53 about and feel
0:32:53 about something.
0:32:54 Now, we also talked
0:32:55 about introversion
0:32:56 and extroversion
0:32:57 and I’d like to
0:32:59 try and dismantle
0:33:00 the common misperceptions
0:33:01 about introversion
0:33:02 and extroversion
0:33:02 because when we look
0:33:03 at the neural circuitry,
0:33:04 as you recall,
0:33:06 introverts are not people
0:33:07 that don’t like
0:33:08 social interaction.
0:33:09 It’s just that
0:33:10 they feel filled up
0:33:12 or sated
0:33:15 by less social interaction
0:33:16 than would be
0:33:16 an extrovert
0:33:17 and that’s because
0:33:18 at least according
0:33:19 to the social homeostasis
0:33:20 circuit model,
0:33:21 they actually get
0:33:22 more dopamine
0:33:24 from less social interaction
0:33:26 whereas extroverts
0:33:28 get less dopamine release
0:33:30 from an equivalent amount
0:33:31 of social interaction.
0:33:32 So for those of you
0:33:33 that feel
0:33:34 as if you’re an introvert
0:33:34 or extrovert
0:33:36 or that know introverts
0:33:37 and extroverts,
0:33:38 it’s not about
0:33:40 how verbal people are.
0:33:40 It’s not about
0:33:41 how much they seek out
0:33:43 social interactions per se.
0:33:44 It’s about how much
0:33:45 social interaction
0:33:46 is enough
0:33:48 for the given person.
0:33:49 Now, the whole reason
0:33:50 for providing this framework,
0:33:52 this biological circuitry,
0:33:52 et cetera,
0:33:54 is not to simply put
0:33:55 a reductionist view
0:33:56 on things
0:33:57 that you already realized
0:33:58 and knew
0:33:59 but rather to give you
0:34:00 some leverage points
0:34:01 to understand
0:34:02 how is it
0:34:03 that you form social bonds?
0:34:04 How is it
0:34:05 that you might be challenged
0:34:06 in forming certain types
0:34:06 of social bonds
0:34:08 and to think about
0:34:08 entry points
0:34:10 to both establishing
0:34:11 and reinforcing social bonds
0:34:12 of different kinds.
0:34:13 Hopefully,
0:34:14 it will also give you
0:34:16 insight into why breakups,
0:34:17 whether it be
0:34:18 between friendships
0:34:19 or romantic partners,
0:34:20 can be so painful.
0:34:22 A breakup of any kind
0:34:23 involves both a breaking
0:34:24 of that emotional empathy
0:34:26 and that cognitive empathy.
0:34:27 And indeed,
0:34:30 it has a neurobiological
0:34:31 and hormonal underpinning,
0:34:31 right?
0:34:33 If one of our major sources
0:34:34 of oxytocin
0:34:35 or one of our major sources
0:34:36 of dopamine
0:34:38 suddenly is not around,
0:34:40 that is incredibly devastating
0:34:41 to a nervous system.
0:34:42 and to borrow
0:34:44 from the great psychologist
0:34:45 and neurobiologist
0:34:46 Lisa Feldman Barrett
0:34:46 who says,
0:34:47 you know,
0:34:48 we are not just individuals,
0:34:50 we are nervous systems
0:34:52 influencing other nervous systems
0:34:53 and their nervous systems
0:34:54 are influencing us.
0:34:55 I think that’s the right way
0:34:56 to think about it.
0:34:57 So it should come
0:34:58 as no surprise
0:34:59 that breakups
0:35:00 of various kinds
0:35:01 are very challenging
0:35:02 regardless of what
0:35:04 underlied that breakup,
0:35:04 whether or not
0:35:05 somebody moving
0:35:06 or an actual decision
0:35:07 of one person
0:35:08 to leave the relationship
0:35:08 or both,
0:35:09 et cetera.
0:35:10 Social bonds
0:35:11 are vitally important
0:35:12 to us as a species,
0:35:13 whether or not
0:35:14 they are at a distance
0:35:15 over social media,
0:35:15 whether or not
0:35:16 they are in close proximity,
0:35:18 actual physical contact.
0:35:19 Today,
0:35:19 what I’ve really tried
0:35:20 to illustrate
0:35:21 is that there are
0:35:21 a common set
0:35:22 of biological,
0:35:24 neurochemical
0:35:26 and hormonal underpinnings
0:35:27 to what we call
0:35:27 social bonding.
0:35:30 And so while it is complex
0:35:31 and it is subjective,
0:35:33 it involves the hierarchies,
0:35:33 it involves
0:35:35 our previous upbringing,
0:35:37 it involves our goals,
0:35:38 et cetera.
0:35:40 It is not infinitely complex.
0:35:41 And in that sense,
0:35:43 it is tractable.
0:35:44 Hopefully I’ve offered
0:35:45 you some levers
0:35:46 or some entry points
0:35:46 under which you can
0:35:47 both understand
0:35:48 and move towards
0:35:49 social bonds
0:35:50 that would be
0:35:51 more satisfying
0:35:52 and more gratifying
0:35:53 for you.
0:35:53 That’s certainly
0:35:54 one of the goals.
0:35:55 The other one
0:35:55 is that hopefully
0:35:56 if you’re a clinician
0:35:58 or simply the friend
0:35:58 that people go to
0:35:59 or the family member
0:36:00 that people go to
0:36:01 when they are challenged
0:36:02 through various challenges
0:36:03 and social bonds,
0:36:04 that you can start
0:36:06 to perhaps pass along
0:36:07 some of the information
0:36:09 as a way of people
0:36:10 understanding what
0:36:11 they’re going through
0:36:12 as they are breaking up
0:36:13 but also as they are
0:36:14 falling in love
0:36:15 as they are forming
0:36:16 attachments
0:36:17 and as they are being
0:36:18 challenged with attachments.
0:36:19 That’s my hope
0:36:20 and especially as you head
0:36:21 into the holidays
0:36:22 and end of year,
0:36:23 I would hope that you
0:36:24 would take this knowledge
0:36:24 and apply it
0:36:25 in any of the ways
0:36:26 that you feel
0:36:27 are meaningful
0:36:28 and adaptive for you.
0:36:30 you